Dabney GrinnanKeymaster08/17/2017 at 1:48 pmPost count: 89
It never fails to amaze me that all of the world is watching a show with an incestuous couple one of whom we’re rooting for. It’s nuts.AnonymousInactive08/17/2017 at 2:50 pmPost count: 2
@ Dabney: Good story telling :)Dabney GrinnanKeymaster08/17/2017 at 6:26 pmPost count: 89
I think too that many of our sexual mores, things that we consider OBVIOUS, were no such thing in much earlier times. Married in your teens, married to your cousin–these were norms that now–thank the gods–we shun. Martin’s world hews to the medieval and I strive to take his characters’ behaviours through that lens.AmandaParticipant08/17/2017 at 10:37 pmPost count: 13
I watched the leaked episode and let me tell you, I can’t remember the last time I was so stressed watching an episode. It’s a good one, but it’s A LOT to take in.BlackjackParticipant08/18/2017 at 12:14 amPost count: 50
I’ve heard from someone else too that the episode is pretty wild. I’m scared now but also really looking forward to it.Jenna HarperParticipant08/18/2017 at 11:58 amPost count: 16
Not to go off on too much a tangent, but the whole incest thing is actually fascinating. Now, I believe 1000% that incest between immediate family members (parents/children, siblings) is always, always, always 1000% wrong and gross, but if you think about the reason for the social taboo, incest between cousins doesn’t bother me as much. The whole point of avoiding sexual relations between relatives was to avoid possible birth defects and other abnormalities that might arise given the limited gene pool between the two parents. That’s why marrying cousins that are several “removes” apart is somewhat acceptable. But in the past, why would marrying a first cousin whom you’ve never met before be “gross”? And in the case of Dany and Jon, since Dany cannot have children*, there is no danger of birth defects between them. They did not know each other growing up and thus no parent/child or siblings dynamic exists. They are, in effect, two strangers who just so happen to share a common relative – Jon’s father is Dany’s brother. It would be one thing if Dany were an older aunt who helped raise Jon and then the relationship became sexual – that would be absolutely gross. But maybe the reason that the whole prospect of the two of them together doesn’t bother me is because I don’t see them as family members in any way other than shared blood. I think incest is taboo because of that familial relationship and shared history.
As far as Jaime and Cersei, I’ve so long ago gotten over the shock factor of their relationship (my grossness over it just always hums quietly in the background) and am almost more affronted by the fact that Jaime continues to love a woman who is so clearly a sociopath. That almost bothers me more than the ick-factor around him sleeping with his sister.
* Why are we so sure that Dany cannot have children? I know it’s been said, but I can’t recall ever knowing exactly why. Did the death of her baby at the end of Season 1 leave her infertile? Anyone shed some light on this?Dabney GrinnanKeymaster08/18/2017 at 2:06 pmPost count: 89
Mirri Maz Duur who was Dany’s midwife and was also a witch made it clear Dany is barren. Dany believes it to be true. Who knows?Jenna HarperParticipant08/21/2017 at 10:30 amPost count: 16
Okay, after last night’s episode, I have a new prediction. It’s one that makes me sick, but I’m predicting it anyway.
I predict that Jon will get Dany pregnant. I think that she’s not really barren, because if you really read the prophesy that Mirri Maz Duur said, it doesn’t say that Dany CAN’T have kids. And a lot of her cryptic “when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east” stuff can be non-literal.
So…Jon and Dany will have a relationship and be in love and Dany will get pregnant and then Jon will die.
The Targareyan line will be assured and Dany’s child – a boy – will be the saviour prince that Melisandre has predicted and the one to ascend the Iron Throne.
All of the emphasis last night on Dany’s successor and her inability to have kids really seems like a set up for her to get pregnant, much to her surprise. And since too many people would have an issue with a happy-ever-after for Dany and Jon given the fact that they are aunt and nephew, I think this means poor Jon is a goner. Also, Jon’s death would solve the problem that, technically, he’s the one who has the higher claim to the iron throne even over Dany, but she’s been set up to be the one and only Queen.
I will cry real tears if they kill off Jon because he’s probably my favorite character.
Here’s another guess: I thought that Jorah Mormont would probably die before the end of the series, giving his life to save Dany in some way. But now I think that Jon will die and Jorah will marry Dany and help raise Dany and Jon’s child.Dabney GrinnanKeymaster08/21/2017 at 11:35 amPost count: 89
As Buffy would say, “A world of No.”
Jorah and Dany grosses out–he is literally able to be her father at 26 years older than she is. At least let her get Daario back.
She deserves better than an old guy!
Not to mention the whole incest thing I still struggle to get past.
If she has to shack up with an older man, I’m hoping for a Tyrion/Dany match instead!Jenna HarperParticipant08/21/2017 at 12:40 pmPost count: 16BlackjackParticipant08/21/2017 at 1:11 pmPost count: 50
I could see the Jorah and Danerys hook up with Jon out of the way. I hadn’t really thought of Jorah as old, though he’s definitely older than Dany.
After last night though, it occurred to me that Brienne might be a better leader than nearly all of them.
I wasn’t expecting a zombie dragon. What does an ice dragon breath out of its mouth? Honestly though, the dragon’s death was deeply affecting. Every time one of the dragons is in danger I feel emotional and last night’s episode was difficult to watch.
I’m disappointed in Arya. She really can’t grasp the horrors her sister has endured. Plus, Sansa made some good points that stumped Arya during their argument. Strangely, Sansa sent Brienne away and right after she seemed to fall for Littlefinger’s suggestion of having Brienne mediate a Stark family fight. What is Sansa up to?
Brienne and Jaime nail biter coming??
Anyway, I’m here in Portland, Oregon at 10:08 am where we are having a total solar eclipse in 10 minutes. It’s getting dark and the birds have just stopped chirping. I’m working from home today and am so curious to see how my pets react. Right now, they just look bored. We’re heading outside to absorb it all now, but it is already so cool. Hope others are in the path of totality today and get a chance to view it all.BlackjackParticipant08/21/2017 at 1:58 pmPost count: 50
Back inside now :) One other thought about last night’s episode:
The Hound asks, “How does she look at you?” Like she wants to carve you up and eat your liver?”
Tormund whispers reverently, “You do know her!”
My hopes are still alive for a Brienne and Tormund relationship and the “Amazon children” they would bear.Dabney GrinnanKeymaster08/21/2017 at 6:07 pmPost count: 89
I’m going to be an outlier and say I think as the writers move away from the books, the series has become less interesting. It’s such a cliche for Jon and Dany to be together–unlike Tormund and Brienne who are a delight. Martin’s world is brutal and horrific but it never panders to the audience. A Jon/Dany pairing seems so… Disney.
I feel the same way about the miracle non-drownings of Jon and Jamie. Did you look at the furs Jon was wearing? The weight of those combined with hypothermia should have done him in. I’m a bit sad that as the show progresses it’s clearly being written to make audiences happy. I’m all for HEAs but I don’t think they’re true to Game of Thrones DNA.Jenna HarperParticipant08/22/2017 at 11:22 amPost count: 16
I can’t argue that a Jon/Dany hookup is super predictable and absolutely unoriginal as far as storytelling goes. And there are so many plot holes and world inconsistencies that it is impossible to ignore them.
But…I gotta say, if this is all fan service, then I’m okay with it. I know it’s not the same world that GRRM created back in the beginning, but that doesn’t bother me. At this point, I WANT to see Jon and Dany together. And I understand that the limited number of episodes left requires some stupid storytelling hacks that really don’t make logical sense (teleportation anyone?).
I guess I’m just invested in the story that is being told as it is, rather than perhaps the way it should be based on the original GOT protocol established in the first seasons. I haven’t reached my jump the shark moment yet. I’m not a purist, I guess.
I think I’m just an easy, cheap date. :)Jenna HarperParticipant08/22/2017 at 11:30 amPost count: 16
As an argument against the Jon/Dany relationship being nothing more than fanservice, it appears that GOT Dungeon Master GRRM had planned them as a couple all along. From a Newseek article:
“[Alan Taylor] told Deadline that he was aware all the way back in Season 1 that the plan was for Game of Thrones to eventually unite Dany and Jon as a power couple. “[A Song of Ice and Fire author] George R.R. Martin came to visit. He was sitting in a chair, and he was being really quite open about things that were to come,” the director said. “He alluded to the fact that Jon and Dany were the point, kind of.”
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