Home Forums After Hours Game of Thrones Season 7 *Spoilers Included* Thread

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  • Maggie Boyd
    Keymaster
    Post count: 68

    I think the article you mean was published by Esquire. Here it is:

    As it stands after Sunday’s episode, the Arya and Sansa storyline back in Winterfell is completely aggravating. Neither of their actions in the last few episodes have made much sense at all for their characters. They’re embroiled in some petty feud over a letter that Littlefinger planted for Arya to find. The Stark sisters are playing right into Littlefinger’s game—and it seems unlike either of them. Naturally, Game of Thrones fans have been scrambling to find an explanation for their weird behavior.

    One very compelling theory is that Arya is deliberately putting on a show for Littlefinger. Perhaps this is all an act, Arya playing the long game until she eventually kills Littlefinger, as Game of Thrones fans have speculated for years. As one Reddit user pointed out, Arya arrived at Winterfell as herself, and has been acting and investigating without a mask:

    Arya can change faces, yet she isn’t using that ability currently. Why? Because Littlefinger doesn’t know she can do that and she WANTS him to see her, Arya Stark, snooping around. Arya has enhanced senses from when she lost her sight, she knows that Littlefinger has been following her. Its also been mentioned that Littlefinger has a certain scent, most likely the only one there who has that type due to his wealth and connections, thus easy for Arya to track with her enhanced sense of smell. Littlefinger doesn’t know that Arya was trained by the faceless men. Based on what he knows he can only assume that she has no real training hence why he doesn’t question why she’s acting so sloppy and obvious.

    Which makes sense. If Arya has been trained as an assassin who can change her appearance, why the hell would she sneak into Littlefinger’s room as herself? Certainly she wanted to be seen by Littlefinger as Arya sneaking into his room. And, she must have known he was there.

    So, what about Arya and Sansa’s conversation in Episode Six? That was also pretty clearly a setup. It’s unlikely that Arya would just leave those creepy ass masks lying around like that. And it also seemed pretty coincidental that she just walked into the room right after Sansa found them. The key in this scene is that the two were playing the game of faces and Arya made it clear that she was lying about everything. And at the end, she handed Sansa the dagger as gesture of loyalty.

    This, it seems only clear, is Arya playing the long game, leading Littlefinger into a false sense of security before she assassinates him. With Littlefinger out of the way, the Knights of the Vale have already made their loyalty to Sansa clear. Another possibility is that after killing Littlefinger, Arya could then get a Littlefinger mask to lead the Knights of the Vale.

    They also have a very interesting counter theory:

    For years, fans have been asking for the Starks to reunite on Game of Thrones. And this year, the writers finally delivered, bringing Sansa, Arya, and Bran together in Winterfell. Well, almost. They’re all different…

    Bran was dragged through the snow for a few years and cooped up in a cave having visions and animorphing into various beasts. Sansa was subjected to multiple wars and terrorized by evil men after she watched her father get beheaded. Arya was a slave, a beggar, blind, and eventually an assassin after getting her ass beaten every day for an entire season. In other words, they all have some baggage.

    So these greetings weren’t as satisfying as one might hope. Which is fine, but not exactly fun for us viewers to see these depressing meetings and the awkward bickering and stares. But maybe there was some subtle foreshadowing when Bran greeted Sansa and Arya, as one Redditor pointed out:

    When Bran reunites with Sansa at Winterfell (S7 EP3) he very clearly does not embrace her back when she is hugging him (we see a view that shows his hands remain by his side). In fact, while Sansa hugs him he stares blankly beyond her (which yes, I recognize is kind of his thing to do now). However, when he reunites (S7 EP4) with Arya he does hug her back (a view is shown with his arm around her), and while his face is still blank-ish, there definitely appears to be a hint of concern as he stares over Arya’s shoulder at Sansa (who looks down). Bran knows that something is not right with Sansa and that she will likely do something that hurts her family. He made a point of arming Arya with that dagger, which he can see she will have to use for some reason not yet known to us. Will she have to kill Sansa?? Only Bran knows for now.
    Let’s take a look. Bran does seem less engaged when he’s greeting Sansa. His hands are underneath that squirrel pelt cape and there’s no sign of him making a move to hug her.

    Now let’s look at how he acted when he saw Arya. He was certainly more personable, and you can clearly see his hands around her. But, as the Redditor points out, he’s staring directly at Sansa.

    As another user pointed out, it’s possible that Bran just needed some time to acclimate to becoming a regular-ass human again. But that doesn’t seem to quite fit with what we know of Bran now. He speaks in riddles, like his “chaos is a ladder” comment to Littlefinger. Everything is deliberate—part of his role is seeing the future, past, and present all at once. He’s doing exactly what he needs to do to set events in motion. That’s why he hasn’t told anyone about Jon’s real parents or anything else he’s seen in his visions. They aren’t supposed to know yet.

    These clues could be as subtle as hugging his sisters when he sees them. Maybe he knows Sansa will betray the Starks. Maybe he knows Arya will be the one to kill her. That would be an intense turn of events, but in Game of Thrones, anything is possible. And if you think Bran’s greeting is too subtle to be foreshadowing, remember King Robert’s first scene back in Season One, and how it predicted the fate of all the Starks?

    Blackjack
    Participant
    Post count: 50

    My random thoughts on the season finale:

    Are Danerys and Jon fans satisfied by their hook up? I wasn’t a fan of them getting together, but if you are a fan, the heavy handed parallel scene with Bran illustrating the incestuous nature of their relationship must take some of the happiness away, if for no other reason than that it surely forebodes trouble for them. Will Jon want the throne now that he’s the heir, and if so, will Daenerys step aside gracefully? Her character arc has been one of steely determination to become queen.

    Like many fans, I did love seeing so many of the major players come together for the negotiations, but for some reason, the scene was a let down for me. I think one reason is that, yes, the wight was frightening, but I think they are really terrifying when you see the sheer numbers of them. A far scarier prospect would have Cersei taking a dragon ride over their armies to get a better sense of the scope of the threat and what she’s going to be facing. Seeing one just doesn’t have the same effect for me, even though it was mentioned that over 100,000 of them are marching toward Westeros. I admit to kind of rolling my eyes too when everyone saw it and capitulated immediately. Of course, we learn that was all a fake out.

    I did not like the way everyone cottoned onto the word “the Great War” as if its title was voted upon and then ratified. Wars gain monikers over time and with the hindsight of history, not in one conversation before they even begin. Small thing, I know, but I can’t help feeling that GoT has lost some of its more sophisticated writing.

    Too many fake outs in this episode. Not only does Cersei fake out her enemies, but Arya and Sansa fake out Littlefinger, who I think might have been onto them if the show was being true to his character. Some of us discussed last week the improbability of the Stark girls fighting as if they were out for blood. Those scenes now I guess are supposed to have represented entrapment for Littlefinger. Were we supposed to believe he was hiding under the bed during their conversations? Also, why entrap him? Arya could have just slit his throat at any time and so except for dramatic tension, a fake trial was not really needed. Still, sad to see one of the few morally ambiguous characters go as the show moves more and more toward conventional good versus evil.

    I liked Viserion as a zombie dragon. Not sure about blue fire since he’s an ice dragon, but whatever. Of course the Wall had to come down. Like the death of a dragon, the show has been predicting it for ages. Will we get to see a battle of the dragons? I hope so!

    Tyrion used to be so savvy but lately, I’m not getting a good sense that he knows what he’s doing. I also do not know why he was hiding in the shadows when Jon entered Daenerys’s bedroom and with such a look of consternation. I really do not know what that was all about.

    I desperately want Brienne to survive. Somewhere during this show she has become one of my favorites.

    Jaime finally (finally!) renounces Cersei. I remember back when I had hopes for his characterization.

    Rumors that the final season is not returning until 2019?

    What did others think of the season finale?

    Maggie Boyd
    Keymaster
    Post count: 68

    Likes:

    Arya killed Baelish. This was a dream for me and I was thrilled when it happened.
    Jamie left Cersei. I had *hopes* for this but honestly didn’t expect it to happen till next season. Was so glad to see him get gone.
    I loved two moments in the Baelish killing scene: When Sansa says, “I’m a slow learner but I do learn.” and “Sometimes I like to play a little game.” Both of those were her taking power back from someone who had worked so hard to take it from her. And I liked how she essentially told him that she had become who he made her.
    Theon is a complex character for me – he was a monster in season one but the Bolton boy sure was a purification by fire for him. I liked that he stood up for his sister this episode although I’m not sure that is going to help anyone.

    Dislikes:

    I still dislike the setup to the whole Arya/Sansa/Baelish situation. I couldn’t understand, perhaps I missed a scene, why the folks from the Eyrie didn’t back Baelish. I think Blackjack makes a good point re Baelish hiding under the bed. Many of the scenes where Sansa/Arya seemed at odds were played out for the audience but not for Littlefinger. It’s clear we were the ones the show runners were faking out but I find it dissatisfying because we never really see them outsmarting Littlefinger, we just have them playing to the crowd. I also felt that the scenes with Baelish/Sansa weren’t acted with any sort of tension. Littlefinger seemed a shadow of his former self at the hearing and so the victory – in spite of it coming at the hands of exactly who I wanted it to – felt hollow.

    I deeply disliked being reminded of Jon/Dany relationship just as they hooked up. Took all the joy right out of it.

    Blackjack mentioned this already but Tyrion doesn’t seem to know things anymore. Perhaps he needs to go back to drinking? Regardless, he gave Dany bad advice about Castelry Rock. They lost their fleet, an important ally (Olena) and could have lost the Unsullied in that moment. Now he has given her bad advice regarding Cersei.

    Overall, the only episode I thought was brilliant this year was The Spoils of War. I still feel that all we are doing is moving characters around on the board. Killing Baelish even felt like they waited till he was essentially irrelevant and reduced to being a loves struck pervert bent on getting Sansa at any cost.

    Final thought:

    I am not sure Cersei’s baby is real. There is the prophecy where she has only three kids but also, it seems she reveals it only to manipulate. She used it on Tyrion and Jamie with varying results. Not sure where GoT is going with this but I find it almost annoying.

    Dabney Grinnan
    Keymaster
    Post count: 89

    It didn’t do much for me. And waiting until March 2019–that’s nuts!

    Jenna Harper
    Participant
    Post count: 16

    I really enjoyed the finale. Here are some thoughts:

    About Sansa/Arya/Baelish – I’m glad that Littlefinger is gone because he was such a slimey character, and given that he essentially began the terror that has been both girls’ lives, they deserved to distribute the final justice. I still think that the whole thing was handled poorly, though. The way the story was written, it seems to me that Sansa and Arya were at each other’s throats up until some point, when Sansa changed her mind and realized it was Littlefinger manipulating them. There was an interview with the actor who plays Bran and he said there was a scene that was cut where Sansa consulted with Bran. This would have been huge as far as selling this storyline.

    About Jon/Dany and their hookup – this is so bittersweet for me. I’m so glad they got together, but the whole situation with Jon learning who he truly is will destroy their happiness. I worry that Dany will suspect Jon of lying to her – of knowing all along who he really was and trying to trick her. That will just piss me off.

    But I’m now completely convinced that Jon is going to do die. His death will solve so many plot problems. It will remove him from contention for the throne. It will solve the incest problem. And you just know that someone has to die tragically because this is Game of Thrones, after all.

    About Jaime/Cersei – so, so glad that Jaime seems to finally have a clue and has left her for good. I think she will end up killing him. I do hope he and Brienne have some great scenes together before it’s all over.

    I enjoyed seeing all of the characters together in one place. Especially loved the convo between Brienne and the Hound.

    Waiting until Spring of 2019 is going to be torture!

    Blackjack
    Participant
    Post count: 50

    I completely agree that the show made a right mess of the Littlefinger plot. I did like though that it was the three Stark children who ganged up together to get him and it was retribution for all the harm he has caused their entire family. Bran was the informant, Sansa the interrogator and Arya the executioner in a public trial. That was clever and I enjoyed that aspect.

    I agree that Jon may well die, unfortunately. Romances on GoT do not fare well.

    I think Jaime will not survive either. However, the show has not done well by him and he is now one of the least interesting characters for me.

    Dabney Grinnan
    Keymaster
    Post count: 89

    You think Jamie will kill Cersei? I think he’ll kill her!

    Jenna Harper
    Participant
    Post count: 16

    Okay, you may have already seen this, but my son showed me this video (made back in Season 5) and it is hilarious. It’s long – over 12 minutes – but full of laughs.

    Check it out – we have a long way to go until Season 8 so we need stuff like this to get us through!

    Coldplay Does Game of Thrones

    Blackjack
    Participant
    Post count: 50

    That was fun! Kit Harrington has a nice singing voice too!

    Blackjack
    Participant
    Post count: 50

    Very detailed and persuasive analysis of why GoT is headed for a predictable, heroic ending. Fair to say too that the critic here is disappointed in the show since Season 5: https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/9/1/16225980/game-of-thrones-finale-ending-impossible

    chrisreader
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    I’m late to the game as I was traveling but I wanted to jump in on some of the topics here.

    The execution of Petyr Baelish- I also think it was clumsily written but the biggest problem was that the show had to change plots and then his character to give Sansa a borrowed storyline. In the books Littlefinger has not made one wrong step, he has Sansa hidden away in the Aerie under his protection with dyed hair pretending to be his illegitimate daughter and learning his ways. She is his prize and he is scheming the best way to advance her and really himself. The girl in the books given to Ramsey the sadist was one of Sansa’s friends who came with her from the North to King’s Landing. She wasn’t important enough to be worth anything so Baelish put her in one of his brothels after the Starks were ousted and after Arya disappeared and he needed a dark haired Northern sounding girl, pulled her out, said she was Arya and traded her off to the Boltons. All the torture and suffering was done to Jayne Pool as a fake Arya, not Sansa. Book Petyr Baelish would never throw Sansa into the unknown to be tortured. Changing the plot line and torturing Sansa necessitated making Baelish foolish instead of the human computer he is in the books. I have no doubt he will be killed by Sansa or at her demand in the books eventually (because of a prophecy that basically says so) but I am sure it will be much more subtle and surprising in its execution.

    I think the biggest problem as some people have pointed out, is that Weiss and Benioff signed up to adapt the story from Martin’s books, not write it. No one every dreamed after so many years there would be no new books to draw upon. Martin gave them an outline verbally of what generally plays out but left characters stuck all,over the place in his books plus added even more in Dance with Dragons. There is a limited amount of time HBO can keep paying these actors as they get more and more famous and only so many seasons they can afford. The show has to end at some point and they are stuck with trying to wrap things up and get out of the” Meerenese Knot” Martin is still caught up in. Rather than creating whole new stories or leaving Sansa out, they borrowed a storyline that brought them a lot of backlash but got Sansa up north to get in on the action. It unfortunately took the most clever character and made him seem dumb. I firmly believe the Battle Of The Bastards will play out very differently in the books. There is no way Martin will make Jon that impetuous just to have a deus ex machina ending with the Vale riding at Sansa’s request.

    One thing I find funny is that people think Jon and Daenerys are fan service but love Tormund and Brienne, when it’s quite the opposite. Jon and Daenerys have been Martin’s goal, they are the fire and the ice and the two main characters as he sees it Tormund and Brienne just took off after a bit of creative interpretation on the set and now it’s played up.

    I truly enjoy the show but I think of it as its own entity from the books. Some things are better on the show like Tormund in general and his relationship with Brienne and some are worse like Jamie who left Cersei in the books LONG ago. I think it ruined his rehabilitation to stay with her so long and after she burned all those people! Once he knew what she was, after spending time with Brienne and her good influence and that she was unfaithful to him, he left her in the books. On the show he just became pathetic. He killed the mad king to save people from burning but on the show he stands by Cersei even when she is a complete monster and all their kids are dead. Like Baelish, it lessened his character I think.

    Something better in the show is Davos. The show had Shireen teach him to read not a cleric like the book, which was a great choice. Also the bastard son of Robert he saved in the book wasn’t Gendry but a noble woman’s bastard by the king who led a privileged life and had other protectors who took him off in a ship with Davis’s help. Having Davos save poor Gendry who also grew up in flea bottom and bond with him and send him off in that little rowboat had much more of an emotional effect than saving some other illegitimate son of Robert’s the audience never met before. But that also meant the Brotherhood had to become villains selling poor Gendry to get him into Melisandre’s hands. In the books they don’t and retain more of their moral high ground.

    I guess what I’m saying is I’m taking the good and bad from both interpretations and enjoying both.

    Dabney Grinnan
    Keymaster
    Post count: 89

    Chrisreader, I so agree with you!

    Blackjack
    Participant
    Post count: 50

    HBO is going to shoot multiple endings to GoT to circumvent leaks. To take it one step further, I think it would be awesome if they pulled a Clue on this one and actually played the different variations to audiences! The SImpsons did this years ago with the “Who Shot Mr. Burns.” Maybe too cheeky for a show that takes itself so seriously though.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/hbo-will-shoot-multiple-game-of-thrones-endings-to-throw-off-would-be-leakers/ar-AArTjBU

    chrisreader
    Participant
    Post count: 8

    I think it’s a good idea to a degree but obviously they aren’t going to be able to shoot dual versions of the expensive CGI laden scenes. They will likely have multiple scripts as well and things change even during the regular season from the shooting scripts. This season a scene with Cersei waking up “in a bed of blood” presumably from a miscarriage was supposed to be the last shot of her but they obviously changed their mind even after filming it.

    Other shows have done this like Gossip,Girl, Sex and City etc and I think it works when it comes down to one final big decision like Chuck or Nate with Blair or Mr. Big or Mikail Barishnikov (forget his character name). For the last scenes where main characters are likely going to die it could be a good deterrent. I know this year apart from leaked scripts early on the biggest leaks came from another country where it is supposed someone who knows the translators for the Spanish versions saw the episodes early and posted videos about what happens just a week or more before the episodes aired.

    I’m not sure there is a way to stop that although they should talk to Matthew Weiner who did Mad Men. I’ve never watched a show that had less leaks about anything than that one did. I literally had no clue from one week to the next what was coming. But he also had the benefit of filming almost exclusively on sound stages and the only leaks or early pictures came from the few shots done out on locations.

    Blackjack
    Participant
    Post count: 50

    Yeah, apparently lots of shows do this. The NYTimes just posted a list of some recent shows that have used this strategy successfully. I do remember Sex and the City had multiple endings as I remember reading that fans had spotted Chris Noth shooting final scenes in Paris. And now that you mention it, I don’t remember ever hearing of any Mad Men leaks.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/14/arts/television/game-of-thrones-multiple-endings-hbo-casey-bloys.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

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