chrisreaderParticipantMay 14, 2019 at 8:30 pmPost count: 7
I’m not sure if anyone is still checking this thread, or if anyone is left watching after the way this season has been going. I did think if any people would be feeling what I am and want to commiserate they would be hear at AAR.
It sounds quite dramatic and unlike me in general to say this, but I am heartbroken over season eight. I am someone who has read the books before and followed the show since it’s inception. I’ve defended the show at times even when they went too far with plot lines or made changes that seemed strange or nonsensical. What the show runners have done with characters and plot lines has left me dumbfounded and sad. While I can’t say this is what George R.R. Martin has plotted for the ending of the books (he has said he thinks the show will end substantially similarly to what he plans for the books) I cannot imagine it all plays out as it does on the screen.
All along GRRM has said his ending would be “bittersweet” and I would expect nothing less. Game Of Thrones has never been about “Disney” perfect endings and shows I really admired such as Mad Men wrapped their arcs up with joy and sorrow. There were happy people, sad people, disappointed people, people who earned redemption and those who didn’t. Not every character got what they deserved, but they did get a logical, well thought out ending true to who their characters had been over the many years of the show. Matthew Weiner truly loved and understood all the characters he created and it showed with the respect he paid each one.
To have Daenerys turn from the liberator of slaves, savior of Westeros with her sacrifices to fight the Night King and his army to a genocidal maniac who decides in a split second to burn thousands of innocent people alive because her boyfriend won’t kiss her and he’s more “popular” than her, was not only jarring it is sickening. It’s all too clear at this point that the man she loves, another white male hero, will kill her next week. So the two most powerful women on the show are both “Mad Queens” that must be put down like rabid animals to save Westeros.
Never mind that Tyrion is a character that murdered his father horribly in a rage and strangled his faithless lover. He was never “mad” though! He was justifiably angry! He is a calm and wonderful man whose sage advice should be heeded. Those were just random acts and not indicative of who he is.
The week before we got the joy of seeing Brienne, arguably the strongest female character with the most honor and sense of self, reduced to crying and begging Jaime not to leave her to return to his incestuous relationship.
I don’t know how the show runners missed the optics of making every person of color left on the show (Grey Worm, The Unsullied and the Dothraki) into war criminals (with only the “white guys” Jon, Tyrion and Davos not joining in the slaughter), and turning Dany into a homicidal mess during mental health awareness month. In the end it looks like some council of all white men will be running Westeros once they have purged it of crazy women and people of color.
Somehow I expected better.Maggie BoydKeymasterMay 14, 2019 at 10:43 pmPost count: 72
I’m very disappointed in how Season 8 has gone. I am not completely surprised by Dany burning the city to the ground since Missandei said dracarys as her final word. She asked Dany to burn the place, Dany agreed. I am unhappy that they are setting her up to be a “Mad Queen” and not accepting that she maybe had a right to her behavior. The common people did not overthrow Cersi and wanting to surrender after supporting a vile dictator for several years doesn’t impress me all that much. War is horrible. It’s sad that so many died. I still don’t think that makes Dany a lunatic.
Ned Stark, remember him? Used to decapitate men who deserted their places on the wall. They had a job they hadn’t wanted, in a place they didn’t want to live in and he killed them for fleeing. First episode, season 1. Nobody called him crazy. Dany kills people who refuse to bend the knee? Clearly she’s a lunatic.
I did understand Dany being upset with Jon. She asked him to tell no one and the next thing she knows her entire council has heard his “secret”. She knows Sansa doesn’t want her as queen. She doubtless fears that Sansa’s whispers about Jon will turn quickly into yet another fight with the Westerosi people over the throne. She has already seen how the people of the North call him a king. After all she’s been through, is it really so awful that she doesn’t want a rebellion? Is she really so wrong to demand a bit of loyalty? Didn’t Rob Stark kill people for disloyalty, by beheading Lord Carstark? Why do the men get away with this and the woman get accused of lunacy the minute they do anything that isn’t sweetly forgiving?
I was very sad about Jamie going back to Cersei and angry that Cersei died the way she did. I wanted Dany to feed her to a dragon, Tyrion to shoot her with an arrow, anything but what I got. I was furious with the whole Brienne story line but then I had been team Tormund Giantsbane all the way. I felt he really cared for her and liked their dynamic. Jamie was too mercurial for me. The writers couldn’t decide who they wanted him to be but I see they finally decided on complete a$$ hat as the answer.
I started these books in 2000. I have been waiting to see who sits on the Iron Throne for close to two decades and now that the moment is upon me, I’m sad rather than excited. I don’t want a man on that throne. I would have no trouble with it if it weren’t for the fact that it came down to two women years ago and now suddenly, out of nowhere, it looks like a white guy will be king. I’ll watch next week but seriously, this sucks.Maggie BoydKeymasterMay 15, 2019 at 9:38 amPost count: 72
Loved this from the Mary Sue regarding Brienne of Tarth: Women do not need sex to make us fully-fleshed people and we don’t need a trumpeted losing of virginity (and subsequent betrayal) to give us emotional depth. Brienne of Tarth was so much more than her sexuality, and the relationship she built with Jaime Lannister should have been enough to have her ask him to stay, knowing he’d be walking into his death, without the outdated sexual dynamics first.://www.themarysue.com/virginity-and-brienne-of-tarth/chrisreaderParticipantMay 28, 2019 at 6:00 pmPost count: 7
As a book reader as well I’m truly sad at how Jaime and Brienne’s relationship ended up. After the glorious high of seeing him knight her as Ser Brienne (an honor she above all the people in Westeros truly deserved) to that cliched farewell just a couple of episodes later was a real low point.
I knew the show runners were up to something when they conspicuously did not include the “valonquar” prophecy from the books in the show a few seasons back. I suspect GRRM plans Cersei’s end quite differently and with a lot more logic. Many careful book readers even believe that GRRM has seeded clues that Jaime and Brienne may even marry in the books -worked into the many prophetic dreams the two have had. I can’t say if that is correct, but it is fair to say that the two have a very rich and complex relationship and that the two actors who play them did an outstanding job of conveying their feelings in every scene, particularly in the ones where they don’t say anything. I wasn’t surprised to see in interviews that they were not greatly enthused about how things turn out for their relationship.
I have no problem with female characters having romance or a love life, in fact I think it can be quite sexist when they don’t. For example I’ve seen so many people before the season starting saying things like “Arya is too traumatized to have a relationship, she’s just DAMAGED” while fully expecting Jon (who was literally brought back from the dead) to of course have a full and satisfying love life and relationship.
I would have truly enjoyed seeing Brienne and Jaime together as respectful partners and true equals and the way he wanted to fight under her command and at her side gave me real hope that they might be the one happy ending to come out of the whole saga. What I didn’t want was Brienne to be shattered and weeping when Jaime threw her over to return to his homicidal sister. We’ve never seen Brienne like that, no matter what situation she faced be it a bear with a wooden sword, the contempt of men, or the army of the dead. She’s strong, capable and one of the few characters with a real sense of self and self worth. It made me angry to see the one thing that can “break” her be her boyfriend jilting her.
The show runners seem to think that to be truly “strong” a character must be alone as that’s how they left all the Starks and the main characters. We don’t even see if Davos talks to or makes it back to the wife he left behind umpteen seasons ago.
Arya is too “independent” to want her family or a relationship as she sets off for lands west. Sansa is Queen in The North without consort, family or close friends. Jon at least has his direwolf, Tormund and the Freefolk to keep him company. ( The writers had even wanted Ser Jorah to survive initially so he could be seen leaving the wall with Jon and his merry band at the end but realized there was no situation where they could have Dany put down as a mad Queen and Jorah still be alive.) It’s not hard to imagine Jon with another love someday despite the supposed strictures of the Nights Watch (particularly with his sister and brother Queen and King of the North and The Six Kingdoms). But Brienne will be the stalwart head of the unmarried Kingsguard writing Jaimes bowdlerized deeds in the great book, Arya will explore alone and Sansa will rule The North on her celibate throne.
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