We’ve talked here before about no-go stories in romance–narratives that readers just aren’t having. Many readers can’t abhor infidelity, others can’t stand violent heroes/heroines, etc…
Today I’m curious what stories would you like to see more of in romance? Personally, I’d like to see more stories that deal with the impact technology is having on relationships. I’d like to see heroines who realistically manage family and careers. I’d like to see alpha heroes who work in fields considered traditionally female. I’d like to see stories where lovers who disagree profoundly about politics find true love together. I’d like to see more stories set in the 1900s. I could go on and on!
How about you? What tales would you like to see more of or told more often?
A fully egoistical wish:
I notice that many of us are getting older, and I feel less and less represented in romance.
At least, I am, at near 55 – I have a full and exciting career, friends, family around, a good home – I am unfortunately widowed (for a while now, cancer) and I feel that I do not exist, much, in romance.
Also, some of the troubles of my age (lost youth, menopause, friends retiring, parents dying … ) – I would like to see those, and not solved by Deus ex Machina miracle cures where we discover exercise and look 30.
Adults, older people – whatever you call them – people who have a settled life, and have a career or a lifestyle, who find love. And need to integrate it into their lives, which are full with, well, life. And I want a romance, not a mostly suspense, or a mostly something else. I do not want to be the secondary couple with the small page count.
I really want a life that basically works well, into which love comes, at a more advanced age.
I have no age limit, but the tropes that are common and I do NOT mean::
– woman of any age needing to come of age because her fairly traditional marriage has broken down and she needs to stand on her own feet. That is delayed NA for me
– people who have a totally extraordinary lifestyle with an expiry date – adventurers, sports stars, soldiers, ballerinas, models settling down – again, for me, this is delayed NA.
– old life breaks down (sickness, job loss, divorce, …) and people go to their hometown or to some completely new to them place and start again from scratch in another career.
I read those books, I like many of them – do not misunderstand me, I just see enough of them already.
I wish for:
People beyond 30 or 35, who reshuffle their life that basically works, to accommodate that another person comes into it, who also has to reshuffle a life that basically works, and both already have opinions, and routines, and a personality. That is what I want. And the older the better, as long as they are still coming across as middle aged, not as old and kind of “winding down”. I do not mind if it is about a couple that grew apart while together, and has to rekindle the relation.
perfect Examples – though often secondary couples or novellas:
Mary Balogh’s Notorious Rake
Edith Layton’s older couples in “Love for all Seasons”
LaVyrle Spencer has a couple of books like that
Lois McMaster Bujold Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen (a great favorite)
Dorothy Sayers’ romance between Harriet Vane and Lord Wimsey
Sharon Lee and Steve Miller’s Liaden has some secondary couples like that
imperfect examples:
Dani Collins Bue Spruce Lodge series (people are youngish for what I mean, though);
Mary Jo Putney’s Rake (heroine’s life falls apart to be rebuilt);
I am sure I could think of more, it is not completely inexistent.
I just want more of that, for it to become “normal”, too
Oh, I am happy to take any and all suggestions!
Please accept my condolences for your being widowed. Hang in there!
The only Harlequin HR with a 35+ heroine and hero I can think of off the bat is “Lilian and the Irresistible Duke,” which AAR reviewed. The heroine is an English widow with grown children who rekindles a romance with an Italian widower duke while on vacation abroad. I haven’t read it yet, but I have it on my never ending TBR list. It has been praised for its nice portrayal of a mature couple in a second romance for both of them. They bond over a shared interest in Renaissance art, I believe.
I don’t know if this is of interest to you, but a family friend (now in her 60s) was widowed many years ago and found a kindly bachelor last year when visiting family abroad. They are going to be married in September, and we are so happy for her. So please be assured that real life romances can and do happen later in life, even if romance novels have yet to catch up with the happier aspects of reality.
Thanks Nan!
Also for the Rec.
Life is good in so many ways, I am not sure that I am not too picky, or simply too footloose, for romance.
But I would like to read about it!!
I have had a theory that part of the popularity of some of Kristen Ashley’s books (apart from the crazysauce) is that she is one of the few authors that has heroines that are as “old” as in their 40’s with a majority in their 30’s. And she writes that they are still “hot” and pursued by more than one guy. I think that is one reason why, even though some of them are definitely “silly” I keep going back to them.
I do think the majority of readers must be looking for that young heroine even though when I see a heroine in her late teens it pretty much makes me squeamish. I do make an exception for authors I really enjoy like Joanna Bourne and Carla Kelly but it’s always in the back of my mind.
We have tags for that!!!!!
“Older Couple” = both protagonists are 40+ (I think there may be a few where it’s like 43 and 39 or something, but it’s meant to be for older than standard) https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/older-couple/
“Older Heroine” – the heroine is over 40 but her partner, male or female, is younger.
https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/older-heroine/
We also have a tag for widowed heroines. These heroines are not always older, however. https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/widow
Thank you for the tag reminder!, Caroline!
Found a few new to me books to try!
To Lieselotte – a truly great post, beautifully expressed and very moving with your personal experiences. Thank you so very much! xx
:-)
Liesolette
What you are looking for is often referred to as ‘Seasoned Romance.’ The leads are both over 40 (35 for some) and the focus is on the romance, not the later in life coming of age or awakening that you are more likely to see in. Women’s Fiction. This a a slowly growing ‘subgenre’ that many authors are embracing and many readers are calling for, I write this sort of romance, with a real emphasis on a heroine with life baggage.–and I pair her with an age similar hero. Like the men, the women are silver foxes, not stereotypes of age–no cougars, no crazy old cat ladies, no knitting grannies, no old crones or comic relief. I write contemporary romantic comedy, contemporary rom com-mystery and romantic suspense that is a blend of cosy spy thriller mystery featuring a middle aged female butler and the spy who loves her.
I did a guest post On AAR about Seasoned romance and it gave suggestions for authors, books and books lists for Seasoned Romance.
https://allaboutromance.com/seasoned-romance-a-guest-post-by-sandra-antonelli/
There is a Facebook group dedicated to seasoned romance
https://m.facebook.com/groups/958318970951705/
There are several lists on Goodreads as well, this one’s a good place to start
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/99966.Seasoned_Romance
Books like these are close to my heart –I did a doctorate on the viability older women as romantic leads and examined the ageist sexism that has, for too long, prevented women over 40 for being portrayed as experienced, strong, capable, intelligent, sensual, sexual whole human beings –who just happen to be older.–not dottery, dreary, demented, dead below the waist, or at death’s door..
Wow! What a fantastic question. Allow me to make a little list:
1) I would definitely love to see more HR in time periods and places not usually explored in the genre. I am happy to report Greta Gilbert has another Ancient Egypt HR coming out through Harlequin next month, but I think that Ancient Egypt could use far more love than it’s currently getting. Other time periods of interest for me would include Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome (there are a few romances set there, but not terribly many), and Tang Dynasty China. Pretty much anything outside of Regency England, Vikings, and the other usual HR standbys is likely to get my attention.
2) There definitely needs to be an industry category for retro romances that take place too far in the past to be considered contemporary but too recent to be classified as historical. Harlequin made an announcement on their blog the other day they are going to start expanding HR into the Cold War Era soon, but I’d like to see some stories set between the end of World War II and up to ten or twenty years ago. Our world is changing so fast now, I would honestly consider a story written today that takes place in the year 2000 to be historical. As someone so aptly put it, “If it happened yesterday, it’s history.” At least Timeworn Literary Journal, a new historical fiction online magazine, considers stories that take place up through 1996. So kudos to them.
3) At the risk of sounding too crude for this forum, I would like to see more varied and creative sex scenes that don’t fall into the trap of acting like penetration is the ultimate form of lovemaking. This idea of penetration being the “big moment” or “real sex” can be especially tiresome in queer romances, particularly m/m. I read an interesting article the other day from 2013 from a gay man who expressed the same exasperation with m/m romance and erotica that I am (vaguely) describing. Without getting too graphic, not all homosexual couples engage in anal, and yet it is often expected in m/m- sometimes in order for writers to get published. A little more variety and nuance in portrayals of queer sexual activity- or even heterosexual activity, for that matter- would be nice.
4) As an addendum to #3, I would like to see more HEA/HFN options that fall outside of the traditional marriage followed by babies epilogue. I would especially like to see less heteronormative HEA/HFNs for queer characters. Even though gay marriage is legal, that doesn’t mean a contemporary gay couple in romance *has* to choose that option for their HEA. In fact, some real life gay couples are quite resistant to the idea of traditional marriage on the grounds that it attempts to shoehorn gay relationships into traditional straight models! That could be an interesting conflict to explore in a CR (maybe one hero wants to be married, the other one doesn’t?) I’m not knocking the narratives currently out there, but there are so many other possibilities.
5) More ordinary looking heroes in HR. I got into a discussion somewhere on AAR that I don’t think the hero always has to be six feet tall or the tallest man in the room or have the biggest washboard abs or be a millionaire/billionaire to be hero material. Some of us like a diminutive intellectual or a gentle soul with surprising passion or some other combination of characteristics. Let’s hear it for variety!
Agree to all!!!
In particular, 3, 4 and 5
on 3)
I am very tired of the seeming requirement of – hero must prepare heroine in certain way (oral) and then penetration first sex scene. it seems to be industry standard, currently.
for that: it takes a while to be comfortable with all the possibilities, if you are truly not experienced, or just have some body shyness.
And some gradual familiarization with each other sex scenes would be nice as well. Where have makeup sessions gone? or heavy petting?
Agree! Yes!
In addition, women aren’t the only humans who have issues. The “staying power” of too many guys in today’s romances is a nice fantasy (heroines who orgasm 2-3 times before the hero “gives in”??? like guys are always in such control?) but PLEASE can we be a little more realistic? One of the most memorable sex scenes of all time IMHO is in SEP’s Natural Born Charmer, just for this very reason. Dean gets a little too into it, before he gets into I, as it were. JR Ward used realism to good effect in Lover Revealed (between Butch and Marissa) as well. Those scenes stand out from all the others because they are so different.
I ask for more realism for two reasons: first, variety is just way more interesting to read. Second, while sex ed (at least here in the US) is making progress in some areas, romances can/could/do go a long way toward helping people (of any age) learn about what it means to be intimate. Not every scene in every book needs to be a sexual primer. But it’d be nice if there were a handful of scenes over a variety of books that show satisfying (and light-hearted) sexy/romantic times that are less than what is proscribed as “perfect” but are, in fact, perfect for the characters – and maybe a few readers.
“hums the theme from Speed Racer”
Exactly!! Like I said, memorable. :-)
“Not every scene in every book needs to be a sexual primer. But it’d be nice if there were a handful of scenes over a variety of books that show satisfying (and light-hearted) sexy/romantic times that are less than what is proscribed as “perfect” but are, in fact, perfect for the characters – and maybe a few readers.”
Totally agree! Also, scenes where sex doesn’t go so well. I don’t mean things going horribly wrong like somebody gets seriously hurt, but maybe getting accidentally elbowed during the proceedings, the man finishing a little too fast, the woman giving herself some satisfaction afterwards- things like that.
Incidentally, I read some interesting comments on an erotica forum (which I can’t find now- grr!) asking readers why they like the genre. And a lot of responders, including men, said they liked how written sex scenes were more creative and explored emotions better than pornography. Then they went on a tangent about preferring amateur pornography than studio produced stuff because the amateurs have more body diversity (weight, height, stretch marks, etc.), tend to engage in more loving acts (what is all this spitting and slapping business in mainstream porn, many asked), and talk or make more realistic sounds of pleasure. So I’m starting to think of mainstream romance annoyances like these erotica commenters’ annoyances with mainstream porn. There is simply more variety in some of the self-published content, so to speak, because the creators are able to break free from standards the wider industry clings to. And the more variety we have, the better!
“I am very tired of the seeming requirement of – hero must prepare heroine in certain way (oral) and then penetration first sex scene. it seems to be industry standard, currently.” Isn’t it interesting how something that may once have been considered radical is now getting to be a cliché? I’m sure a few years ago, a preparatory oral scene in romance would have raised lots of eyebrows and perhaps gotten praise for originality. Now it’s become the new, somewhat tired standard.
I think of oral sex as more intimate than traditional intercourse, so I’d like a slow-down on some of those scenes as well. If you’ve dated for quite a while before sex happens, at least a few months, it’s less jarring. But to just go there during a one night stand between people who hardly know each other is not appealing to me.
“…I don’t think the hero always has to be six feet tall or the tallest man in the room or have the biggest washboard abs”.
Haha, this reminds me of a Harry Potter romantic fanfic where Snape is the hero, so the writer gave him hard abs, muscular arms, and a chest broad as a gorilla’s. And I’m reading this wondering, “Did he lift weights while waiting for a potion to come to the boil?”
LOL! Snape with a bulging six pack? Heaven help us!
Dabney created a tags page for us where I think you will find some of what you’re looking for, especially in time periods. The main tags index is here: https://allaboutromance.com/using-tags-to-find-books-you-love/
The term I use for books written nowadays but set in the post-WWII era is “modern historical.” You can find those at this tag: https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/modern-historical/ We also did a blog post about them: https://allaboutromance.com/aar-loves-modern-historicals/
Some other interests you mentioned that haven’t been added to the main page yet:
Vikings – https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/viking/
Tang Dynasty – https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/tang-dynasty/
Qing Dynasty – https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/qing-dynasty/
And I’ve been working on it to make it easier to find tags. It’s a work in progress, so keep checking back!
For creative sex scenes in male-male romance check out Cole McCade if you haven’t already. While they often culminate in one body part entering another, they’re rich with details about the touching and kissing and talking and noise-making that happens both in the lead-up to those body parts connecting and during the connection.
Re historical romance: I’d love to see mor romances set in the everyday places that didn’t make it into the history books – the farmland of Ireland, the coal mines of Wales, Eastern Europe prior to WWI.
Hospital/medical romances where the MCs are not doctors (which is a bit like wishing for a historical where the hero isn’t a duke?). I do behind-the-scenes work in a hospital lab, so a romance in that setting would be very appealing. Actually, a romance in a research lab would be great too.
Realistic romances set on sailing ships, thanks to the film “Master and Commander”.
Any romance where the characters are trying to make ends meet. The deeper the financial pit and the harder they struggle, the more hooked I am, especially if it’s a historical and the story mentions the costs of things back then. Weird, I guess, but it fascinates me.
Looking forward to hearing everyone else’s wish lists!
In case you haven’t read it – After Hours by Cara McKenna is set in a psychiatric hospital, the heroine is an LPN and the hero is an orderly. No lab, though.
That still sounds different from the usual. Thanks for the recommendation!
It’s a fantastic book…one of my all-time favorites and and a reliable comfort re-read. I’m selfishly sad that Cara McKenna decided to stop writing.
She did?! I didn’t know that! I’m very disappointed, maybe she will take a break and pick it up again as Mejean Brook did. I think she’s an immensely talented author.
I second this recommendation, it’s just a fantastic book! The setting and characters are just so out of the ordinary for a romance, the writing is fantastic and author is very knowledgeable about the subject and setting. A++
Wow thanks for the reminder. I just went into the cloud and brought it back up for a re read. I bought it in 2013 which at my age is long enough for it to be like new.
Tags for books about ordinary people with financial struggles:
Working class historicals: https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/working-class-historical/
Working class contemps: https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/working-class-contemp/
Oh, and shipboard romances: https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/shipboard-romance/
Personally, I strongly recommend Elizabeth Essex for this. There are 2 books she wrote which match this – Almost a Scandal and A Scandal To Remember.
I’m sure I have lots but of course I can’t think of them right now. I totally agree with some of the suggestions that have been made here though! I’d love to see more contemporaries that incorporate technology in a realistic way. I find it fascinating to see how the characters communicate through technology, it always reveals a different side of them. When a significant number of messages are included it gives an epistolary touch and I love epistolary romances. I am also really interested in different historical settings. Don’t get me wrong I like the Regency and Victorian time periods, but I’d love some variety too! Ancient Egypt, Ancient Rome, a revival of medieval romances, even WWII. And of course, historical romances set elsewhere in the world. I don’t know much about world history and would love to learn through well researched romances, that would be so cool. Think about the possibilities! A corollary of that would also be, more historical romances about different kinds of people, not just privileged aristocrats. People who have to work for their living (not the cliched “I own a gambling den” kind of work…) There must be so many interesting occupations and social circles to explore. (I love stories set on ships too!) I’d love to see a greater diversity of heroes. Don’t get me wrong, I do like reading about alphas and tall, buff guys sometimes. But I think we’ll always have plenty of those to go around ;) and I get bored when that’s all there is. We are seeing a bit more beta heroes and I am thrilled, I hope we get to see more of all kinds of personality types, not just the hypermasculine ones. And that applies to body types too. I’d like to see shorter heroes, overweight heroes or lanky heroes, bald heroes, whatever… What really works for me is when the author can make me feel that the hero is attractive to the heroine, whatever his characteristics. I don’t have to personally find them attractive, as long as the heroine does and it comes through in the writing. I am so tired of hearing about chiselled jaws, it’s lazy. Ditto more diverse heroines, although I feel like romance is doing better at that than with the heroes. And I know not everyone will agree with me here, but I’d like to see more real heroines. More women who have their period, who have body hair, who really need to pee at an awkward time because they drank too much beer while on that date with that handsome stranger, who have interests beyond the stereotypical feminine ones… Less of the always perfectly shaved beauties who love shopping and shoes. I know some people like the escapism of glossing over those things, but without overdoing it or using a sniggering potty humour tone, I find that adding that dose of reality makes me connect so much more to the story because I can relate more deeply. More realistic sex. The first time you have sex with someone you can’t expect to have the best sex of your life. You have to learn each other and your likes and dislikes. Maybe you fumble around a bit, and you can laugh about it. Maybe sometimes, penetration is painful, or you can only have an orgasm a certain way, or you need lube (seriously, not enough lube in romance) and you have to find ways to make it work. Sometimes all the perfect sex in romance can feel alienating and unhelpful. Portraying all the diversity of human sexual experience can be really sexy, because it will resonate emotionally. If the author can make the connection between these characters and the way they enjoy each other clear through a more lifelike scene, I would find it far hotter than always reading the same flowery fireworks type of earth-shattering sex. There was a scene in The Austen Playbook where the heroine told the hero at certain times in her cycle penetration is painful for her, and they found other ways of getting off. I was floored, I thought it was such great representation (even though this is not an issue I actually have myself). I want more of this kind of thing. In general I guess, I hope authors feel comfortable to try new and different things. It’s always a thrill to find a well constructed romance with a situation or setting that feels new to me. I want diversity that isn’t just… Read more »
Ha. I always want a scene where the heroine is peeing as she talks–through the door or not–to the hero. It feels like the only time bodily functions–outside of sex are discussed–are when people are in pain. I’d like more everyday physical intimacy!
@Dabney: In Anne Calhoun’s THE LIST, the heroine is taking a pregnancy test. She makes the hero stand outside the bathroom door. Then she turns on the faucets so he can’t hear her pee!
Laurann Dohner is the only author I can think of whom I have read recently that covered this topic in a book, lol.
You might find a book you’re interested in under our “tech romances” tag – https://allaboutromance.com/review-tag/tech-romance/
This is for romances where tech plays a large role. That CAN be tech careers or science fiction tech like AI characters, but it also includes romances where dating apps and tech play a large role in bringing the protagonists together.
All excellent points, Estelle Ruby.
“In general, I guess, I hope authors feel comfortable to try new and different things.” I think a lot of authors would love to do this, but traditional publishers/editors tend to shove them into industry standard boxes. Marian Perera, for example, was told to make her hero titled or the heir to a large fortune in order to have her story published. Sadly, this is not an isolated case. That’s why I believe you will find far more variety in small presses and self-published titles than the mainstream traditional publishers.
As for fumbling in sex scenes, I am totally with you. They can actually be a lot more fun to write than the more “fireworks and life is all perfect” variety. Especially when working in the erotica market, you have to be more creative than some of the old standards, if only to keep from becoming bored or boring the readers. Shameless plug alert: I can assure you that in my Joey & Johnny Forever series, my two heroes have had more than their fair share of awkward moments as in accidentally bumping a head against the headboard (ouch!), foot falling asleep, dressing in haste to avoid getting caught, stupid roleplay ideas and fantasies they can laugh about later, frightening flashbacks, performance problems, etc. Besides providing variety and opportunities for character development, these little flubs and setbacks makes the extra hot “OMG this is so perfect” sex moments even better.
DAMNIT! I was all set to recommend Lucy Parker to you for a dose of realistic sex. :-D
Lucy Parker is wonderful, and there were a couple of unique representations of awkward sex in The Austen Playbook that caught my attention. Sex in the shower – doesn’t always work well.
@Dabney Grinnan: Totally agree on building more everyday physical intimacy. I’d love to see that.
@Caroline AAR: Thank you for all these links to tags you are posting! I don’t always remember to go and check those out, but they’re so useful :)
@NandePlume: You are right I was mostly thinking from a reader’s point of view… But it must be very limiting to be trying to sell a book to a traditional publisher. The system is so flawed. What you describe in your books sounds like exactly what I’d like, I’m glad there are some books like that out there!
@seantheaussie: Haha yes absolutely!
@Blackjack: Yes, I love what she does, there are so many good things about her books.
@Estelle Ruby- “The system is so flawed.” I agree but also see the benefits of traditional publishing as well, particularly for authors who otherwise couldn’t afford editors, cover designers, and so forth. One of the reasons I got into erotica is because readers are generally a lot more forgiving of self-editing and generic covers than readers of other genres. I always joke that I just have to be careful not to accidentally have the hero whip out his “duck.” :)
“What you describe in your books sounds like exactly what I’d like, I’m glad there are some books like that out there!” Aw, thank you! For me, a lot of writing is filling unmet needs or, to use the colloquial expression, “I write the books I want to read.”
But I do have some good news on this front. You are definitely not alone in your preference for diverse sex scenes. In fact, there is an erotica anthology being created right now that is specifically calling for inclusive, body positive flash fiction stories. “Erato” from The New Smut Project is accepting submissions of 50-2,000 words through May 1st, if you want to try your hand at a story. Reading through their posts, I noticed they are already rejecting pieces on the grounds of being too heteronormative or unoriginal. So we’ve got some kindred spirits out there! The anthology is supposed to be published this October. Submission guidelines are here: https://newsmutproject.tumblr.com/submission_guidelines.
I hope some of the writers here at AAR will take advantage of this opportunity. I think it’s a great way to get out these unique and realistic sex scenes a lot of us are clamoring for. And you better believe I already have my maximum 3 flash fic pieces under submission.
I’d really like to read romances where faith plays a greater role in the characters’ lives than it does in most I read today. I know there are Inspirational romances, but—although I’ve read some—I’m not too fond of them because of the emphasis on virginity/no-sex-before-marriage/closed-door. I’m not looking for markers that say, “these people are religious,” I’m looking for romances with people who live (like all of us) busy, complicated, sometimes messy lives—including having sexual relationships—but also have an active faith presence in their lives. I just read FACE THE MUSIC by BJ Salsbury, and—although it wasn’t perfect—I did like the story of a widowed pastor who grows close to a woman who does volunteer work at his church. I also love Sierra Simone’s PRIEST & SINNER—both very erotic, but with a strong spiritual side.
(For the record, I’m a regular churchgoer and consider myself a Christian—but most definitely NOT of the Tr*mp-supporting Evangelical variety.)
I’m always a little befuddled by how faith is portrayed in books. If someone is religious (outside of books that are strictly marketed as Christian or religious) in a romance novel chances are they are some hateful nut there to oppress everybody.
I know people of almost all faiths who believe and pray in their own style, give generously to charities and try to be good people. None of them are celibate, woman hating or out to oppress anyone.
I was raised Catholic and every Catholic I know is a “buffet” Catholic (as I call it) picking and choosing what parts they are going to adhere to and what they are going to skip. I can assure you I could name zero of them who follows all the church’s teachings. My Jewish friends are always ready to do a mitzvah, but they certainly aren’t keeping kosher all the time.
One thing I think people really don’t know about the Catholic Church is that Nuns are the least conservative groups there are. They are the ones (at least all the ones I know) that are the most liberal. They are often in clashes with the church, in conflict with Popes and are out protesting for the most “liberal” causes. Ones in their 60’s with tattoos. I think a lot of people would be really surprised to know that.
Those are all great points about religion in romance, Chrisreader. And when religious people aren’t portrayed as nuts/villains, they are the insufferable heroes. As one person said, she likes Harlequin Love Inspired stories and Love Inspired Suspense for the lack of overt violence and sexual content but just has to push past some of the “random praying.”
Thanks for putting in a good word for Catholics. I’m a non-believer myself with a Catholic background, and it’s sometimes annoying to see the almost constant vilification of Catholicism in mainstream novels and television. No, I am not condoning some of the horrible scandals and crimes that have occurred over the years. I don’t know any Catholics or former Catholics who are. But the constant media attention on those crimes versus crimes that happen in other religions or secular contexts is a serious problem often related to cultural bias. Catholics were, and sometimes still are, a hated minority- one that is still acceptable to publicly mock. Much of this is tied into culture as well. Catholics historically, and today, tended to come from Ireland and Southern Europe- also despised groups in history.
“One thing I think people really don’t know about the Catholic Church is that Nuns are the least conservative groups there are.” I would definitely add Jesuit priests to that list as well. There’s definitely an air of, “Should Jesuits even be allowed to call themselves Catholic? They’re so radical!”
So perhaps an addition to the wish list, like you said, would be more nuanced portrayals of religion in romance, particularly Catholicism. I would, if possible, like to see these types of stories written by people who grew up in the culture and understand things like, “No, Catholics do not worship statues.” (For the umpteenth time!) But I’m not going to rant and holler and do #ownvoices checks if anyone outside the culture writes those stories. I’m always on the side of, “Well, if I don’t like that portrayal, I’m off to write a story of my own.”
I also find when authors do write Catholics (Penny Reid springs to mind) it’s usually the mothers of male characters, they are SUPER Catholic and are always praying about everything yet are somehow overjoyed to have their son marry a non-Catholic in either a secular wedding or a religious but non-Catholic wedding. This is in my experience not true to life. They want the characters to be very devout, yet absolutely delighted their grandchildren will be raised in some other religion, or no religion at all. In the Catholic Church marriage is a sacrament and marriages outside the church are not considered “full” marriages the way Catholic ones are. In the sense that you can be married in a Protestant church, divorced and then be married in the Catholic Church, whereas if you were married in a Catholic ceremony before you can certainly divorce, but you cannot remarry in the Catholic Church without an annulment.
It’s the same with my Jewish friends. Their son married a girl who is nominally Christian, doesn’t really practice any religion and they had a joint faith ceremony. They are wonderful people and treat her (IMHO) better than her own parents but after having close relatives die in the Holocaust and suffer persecution over many centuries for their religion in their family (and in their own lives) would they have preferred to have their grandkids raised as practicing Jews? Yes sure. Does it make them bad people? I don’t think so.
“They want the characters to be very devout, yet absolutely delighted their grandchildren will be raised in some other religion, or no religion at all.” Bingo. I think a lot of authors are afraid of backlash if they give their characters complicated, nuanced positions. And the whole thing about super Catholic characters who are suddenly okay with their kids marrying non-Catholics feels almost like a caricature at times.
For a story done right in this regard, I highly recommend the Canadian movie “Mambo Italiano” (2003- not to be confused with the Dean Martin film). It’s an m/m comedy, and when the son comes out, his parents have a fit! They go so far as to attempt to break up the relationship not out of hatred or meanness, but out of genuine concern in alignment with their cultural and religious beliefs. If you haven’t seen it already, it’s a hoot and has what I’d consider an HFN. Paul Sorvino is a riot as the dad.
That sounds like an interesting movie, I’ll have to look for it. It does sound like more of the extreme I’m talking about. In real life people might have reservations about their kid marrying outside their religion but they will rarely do Lucy and Ethel level crazy things to break them up (thank goodness) lol.
I would be interested in seeing a real conversation in a romance where the parents and child discuss what is happening all over the U.S. where each generation is becoming less connected to religions and religious organizations. How do you handle it when it is considered part of your ethnicity and history as well? I think it is applicable across many religions and ethnicities. Along with becoming more “American” each generation becomes a little more homogenized in many ways. Be it language, religion, culture etc.
Oh, it’s lot of fun. I never thought about your Lucy and Ethel comparison, but that’s totally on the mark. You just have to go into watching “Mambo Italiano” with the mindset that it’s an over the top goofy comedy with some heart.
I like your idea of realistic conversations about intergenerational faith and ethnicity in romance.
I bet there won’t ever be a right wing Trump supporting H/h either for similar reasons.
@Elaine: who would read it?
Yes, I meant Hero/heroine. @DiscoDollyDeb: As to who would read it? Well, why not? We read in HR about all sorts of political and religious POVs, some of which we disagree with profoundly and some of which we applaud. It does not mean that the story cannot be interesting and attention-holding reading with, perhaps, a message we find useful, interesting or even objectionable. For example, we read Gone With the Wind which was a seminal book yet we loathe slavery – today. When it was published – well perhaps different ideas which we don’t now like or accept we but have to understand they were commonly held in the not so distant past. I read a wonderful romance novel some years ago called Unfinished Business by Karyn Langhorne. The hero is a White disabled war veteran who is now a “conservative” senator in a southern state who crosses swords with a Black activist