I’m nattering on about Drop Dead Diva and romance again. That show is my drug.
In this past Sunday’s episode, Jane goes on her first date with a fellow lawyer, Tony. He is really cute, as you can see from the picture of him here. This is your Fat Hero.
He shows up at home to pick up Jane for their date but Jane’s mother has dropped by and he decides to stay for a home-cooked meal. I heart Tony. When he leaves, Jane’s mother tells her that he’s a keeper, and describes him as a guy who likes (I paraphrase) “women like us”. ‘Women like us’ being plus-size characters, or, Your Heavy Heroine.
Jane is upset about this possibility and towards the end of the episode, asks Tony why he’s attracted to her. I’m going to assume that if he said ‘Jane, you’re just so fat and I love that in a woman’ that they wouldn’t have shared the kiss they did to close out the hour.
Now, I’m of two minds on Jane’s negative response to the idea that Tony could have been attracted to her size. My first mind says this: “What’s the big deal here, Jane? Some men are attracted to big-breasted women, some women like the feel of a six-pack, and there are those who think green-eyed redheads are God’s Gift to Humanity. In short, we all have physical preferences. What’s wrong with liking a Fat Heroine?” My second mind says this: “God, Tony, if this is true you are such a let-down! Take your freakish, chubby-chasing ways elsewhere you unmitigated loser and blight on society!!”
Then I thought of something: why did the issue come up in the first place? Why did Jane’s mother come to the quick conclusion that Tony liked ‘women like them’? Jane felt insulted by this possibility but I think another person who had cause to feel insulted was Tony himself. It is likely because he is not on the skinny side of the BMI chart that Jane’s mother assumed he liked ‘women like them’. Basically, she was saying, ‘he likes women like himself’. Poor Tony wouldn’t be allowed to consider Your Skinny Heroine would he? She would be out of his league.
If Grayson, Your Six-Pack Hero for whom the world is his oyster and every single body type his pearls, had asked Jane out, what could have been her mother’s response? “Oh, Jane, he must really like you!” (Read: despite your weight, and all the other pearls at his disposal, he has found something to love).
That sounds likely, but it could just have easily been: “Yep, there are guys like that who like women with a little meat on their bones!” (Read: how fortuitous that he’s a guy like that, because if he was any other type of guy, he wouldn’t be attracted to your weight. It takes a special type of Six-Pack Hero to find something to love in a Fat Heroine).
You just can’t win with Jane’s mother, can you!
And, you just can’t win with some romance readers.
In all the discussions Romanceland has had on the topic of plus-sized heroines to date, some readers introduce the idea of the romantic fantasy and the fact that a Fat Hero or a Fat Heroine get in the way of this. They might say:
Who wants to read about a woman whose legs rub (apart from women whose legs rub?)? Who wants to read about a man with a paunch (apart from women attracted to guys with paunches?)? And if we did read about these people, how are we to believe that someone ‘normal-sized’ actually found them attractive? How are we to believe that they really are happy the way they are (read: fat)? Reality will get in the way and spoil our fantasy.
If Jane was a contemporary romance heroine and Tony and Grayson formed the other points to her love triangle, a romance reader who brings her real-life conceptions on overweight people to the story might think Tony was just ‘settling’ or ‘without options’, or that Grayson was a ‘chubby chaser’ a.k.a. some sort of freak. These thoughts don’t lend themselves to delightful romance do they?
To be frank – and from my personal perspective as a plus-sized woman – I can’t get mad at those readers looking for that fantasy of physical perfection. And though I would like to think that if I had spent my entire life being on the “right” side of the BMI chart, I would still be open to reading about Fat Heroes and Heroines, I can’t say that for sure. We live in a weight-obsessive society and maybe I would have believed that fat love wasn’t as romantic as fit love; maybe I would have found it hard to believe in their Happily Ever After.
But in the here and now, I’m always happy to read about the romance of a plus-sized heroine and I am most definitely on the look-out for a plus-sized hero. Any reading suggestions?
-Abi Bishop
Your idea isn’t wrong,I’m guessing God assists those that aid themselves. Come on!
Your concept isn’t incorrect,I am guessing God helps people that aid themselves. Come on!
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I love all your heroes, Carla — they think and feel like real human beings, and they LOOK like real human beings, not department store mannequins!
I loved Dr. Cook in “”Libby’s London Merchant””, and I loved the WAY Libby fell in love with him. At first she didn’t think he was attractive, because he didn’t fit her preconceptions of what a handsome man should look like; but she was always hyperaware of his physical presence, and only gradually realized that she WAS strongly sensually attracted to him, but at a deeper level than she had been consciously aware of. To me that sense of gradually deepening awareness was a very believable depiction of what it’s like to fall in love.
Re: overweight heroes — there was actually a discussion thread about overweight heroes a while back on the Romance board on Amazon.com… as a result of that discussion I compiled a list titled “”Romances With Portly Heroes,”” which you can find by doing a Listmania search on Amazon.com. (I hadn’t heard of “”The Raider”” though, I will have to check that out and add it to the list.)
In quite a few of the novels, the overweight hero is the secondary hero, not the main main. And in the novels where the overweight hero is the main hero, most of the time he’s depicted as needing to lose weight in order to become attractive to the heroine. I’m sure somebody somewhere could write a PhD thesis about that, but it won’t be me :)
A favorite “”look”” of the late Georgian/Regency era was what was referred to as “”full-fleshed”” for men. I have always thought it was an attractive look, personally. Skinny men have never appealed to me, and not so much to my heroines, either, and they should know, eh?
Example: Russell Crowe as Captain Jack Aubrey in “”Master and Commander.”” I believe he put on weight for the part, and he looked precisely right.
Thanks for that list Roxanne. I haven’t read many of them so I’ll get on that as well as the Eloisa one with the overweight hero.
SusiB – Min was an annoying character to me, not an annoying plus-size character. So even though I would agree she did not have weight hang-ups when it came to romantic relationships, in many other things I thought she made her own mess and so, though I liked the book, I didn’t love it.
Abi
I have to defend Min from Bet Me, too. For someone who has been nagged about her weight by her mother for pretty much all of her life, she has a very healthy self-confidence. And if I recall the book correctly, there isn’t a single scene of Min thinking, “”oh no, he can’t possibly be attracted to me, I’m far too ugly””. I like Min.
The thing is (and I’ve changed the name I post under here to protect somebody else’s privacy) – my hero, in my own life, was overweight. I loved him anyway. I married him and I told him he looked just fine to me. And he did!
Then we went for an annual physical, and the doctor told him he had to lose weight or he wouldn’t live past 50. We got on it, and bless him, my DH has literally worked his butt off: he’s fifty-five pounds lighter, feels better, and looks even better.
But now whenever I read plus-sized heroes/heroines, I’m kind of scarred by this experience. Somebody posted that books where heroines lose weight as they fall in love are like morality tales saying you have to be skinny to have an HEA. But in my life, it’s actually been true. If my husband hadn’t lost the weight, he probably would not have lived to see our kids graduate college.
I’m not saying that Size 12 is fat. But I’m saying that in my life, I took it too far to the other extreme. So I’m all about loving a heroine or hero with a few pounds here or there, but I don’t really care what is “”normal”” these days: if it’s unhealthy, it’s not okay with me anymore, and I won’t believe the HEA if it’s not dealt with.
I’m a fan of physically imperfect characters, and the bigger-than-beauty-ideal heroine is a particular favorite of mine. But, as many have said before me, it must be well handled.
If the entire plot revolves around her weight, I’m not interested (too much diet speak makes me want to kill myself). Aside: “”Bet me”” is sort of an exception to this rule.
I don’t mind a little vulnerability, but if she has absolutely no confidence that’s a problem. Then the power dynamic is unbalanced: she needs rescuing and he’s her rescuer. I like when there is strength, vulnerability, and acceptance on both sides.
I don’t like a story where the heroine’s weight is a problem for the hero, something that he must overcome. He needs to love her for much more than her looks (obviously!), but should never be loving her in spite of her looks. I’m not saying that he always has to be instantly attracted to her, but he must become intensely so as the story moves on.
All that said, I have some recommendations of books where the heroine is on the plump side. Some of these women could be considered plus-sized and others are just not perfectly thin (and it’s not always clear which are which). However, I’m pretty sure that none of these heroines have flat stomachs.
I like all these books to some extent. The ones I like a lot are starred. The ones I love are starred twice.
**Taming the Wolf by Deborah Simmons
**Romancing Mister Bridgerton by Julia Quinn
*Tall Tales and Wedding Vales by Jane Graves
**The In Death Books by J.D. Robb (For Peabody. I love her!)
**Lord of Danger by Anne Stuart
*Faking It and **Bet Me by Jen Crusie (Stuart and Crusie both like to do heroines that are a bit plump.)
Take a Chance on Me by Susan Donovan
**The Serpent Prince and *The Leopard Prince by Elizabeth Hoyt
To Wed in Texas by Jodi Thomson
Night Play by Sherrilyn Kenyon
**Get Lucky and Taylor’s Temptation by Suzanne Brockmann
Of Midnight Born and *The Changeling Bride by Lisa Cach
**Clay Yeager’s Redemption and *A Man to Trust by Justine Davis
*A Dangerous Love by Sabrina Jeffries
*Suddenly You by Lisa Kleypas
*The Wedding Ring Promise by Susan Mallery
I’m not a fan of these either. I like the plus sized hero/heroine theme when self-acceptance is the focus and not the weight itself.
Yesterday I posted links to two books (I was tired and didn’t feel like explaining), in both, the heroines used to be very overweight but have slimmed down somewhat by the time the story starts. They have lingering image problems though and are still considered, by family members and society, to have a weight problem. Their issues aren’t so much their weight but them coming to terms with themselves as they are. Both their heroes love them for who they are. In Beautiful Stranger, the hero explicitly says he’ll still love if she gains all the weight back.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that also. There is usually (but not always) some sort of “”swan”” moment when she slims down and gets her makeover, or it’s clear that she’s not really all that plump to begin with and it’s mostly her own insecurity about being “”voluptuous”” around some skinny sisters or something.
And in the case of Penelope from Romancing Mr. Bridgerton, I remember her as being “”plump”” in the earlier books, but I could have sworn that it was made clear that she was no longer plump as she had been when she was younger. I thought that was part of the H/h conflict: he continued to see her as his sister’s “”plump pal”” when she had grown out of that and was no longer plump, and had become a more poised woman. Maybe I’m remembering it wrong.
I read Carla Kelly’s “”Libby’s London Merchant”” when I was younger, and the only thing I can remember thinking is, “”She dumped the hot duke for a fat doctor?!”” And so I gave it away. Of course, now I’m regretting it, but I think the doctor (Anthony) is rather solid, and certainly not six-pack material.
I have an issue with the ‘plus sized hero/heroine’ list, and that is that in many of the listed books, the heroine goes from heavy to slim during the course of the book. As the character grows and makes a good relationship with the hero, she also slims down. It’s implied that the excess weight, even when it’s only mild, is something that needs to change for the HEA.
In Georgette Heyer’s The Masqueraders, the hero is described as a “”mountain””. That implies to me that he’s not only tall, but wide as well……and all the better to squeeze.
As far as most “”fat”” characters are concerned though, the extra weight doesn’t bother the fantasy for me as long as they are proportional. (I know a few people who are morbidly obese though, and that is such a serious health, and emotional issue that I think that would end the fantasy if an author went as far as that.)
Still, I would rather have the characters be a little round than perfectly perfect in every way – that’s just annoying…..and what is the deal with the giant men, and the tiny women? Who would REALLY like to be involved with someone a foot or more either taller or shorter than they are?
Another issue for me is historicals – why is the heroine’s weight brought up at all? It was fashionable to be curvy in many times.
Ok, not the 1920’s, and the Regency Empire gowns weren’t designed for women with a normal figure – but women were supposed to have curvy figures back then. Women were supposed to have breasts and hips – childbirth, you know.
I myself happen to love “”Bet Me””. I’ve always been big, though it took two kids to push me into the heavy category. In real life, I think people are attracted more to character once they get to know each other, though physical appearance does play an initial part in the attraction.
I have a pet peeve with the heavy heroine/gorgeous hero trope: it’s like she’s not validated unless she can attach a gorgeous hero! Why can’t she be happy with an average or heavy hero? To me this is like reverse discrimination. That said, I find myself reading more about the characters than their physical traits. I don’t want to know how BLUE their eyes are, or how impresive the 6 pack is. I want to know what makes them tick so I can believe in their HEA.
James Cameron spent the whole time on Titanic calling her “”Kate Weighsalot””. What a charmer, eh?
I haven’t given much thought to the whole plus sized issue. What does bother me is when an author lingers on a character trait — if the heroine is small and the author goes on and on about how big the hero is compared to her, then the small/heroine big hero combo will get to me, even though normally it wouldn’t.
I also don’t like tiny heroines (and I am short myself) who can beat up a six foot tall male with no combat training whatsoever. Don’t buy it for a minute. My 5’7 son and I have wrestled and tussled before and he can kick my butt easy. And he’s just a junior high kid! I’d hate to see what he could do to me as a full grown male. Don’t think we’ll be play fighting too much longer!
With size, Jen in “”Hot Pursuit”” comes to mind not because her size was such an issue but because I never really got a clear image of it. Gilmann and the cop seemed to find her attractive so I never really thought of her as big.
Boyish figures and A cups tend to yank me out of story or if the heroine is described as childlike. I can remember a book where the hero (in his thirties) very nearly salivated over the heroines (18) innocence. In that particular case the author carried the point far too far, it came up over and over again in various conversations — that the heroine had fierce intelligence in her eyes but was so young and innocent looking you knew it to be a “”pure”” intellectual sort of intelligence. I don’t mind virgin stories but when the virginity is what is prized that bugs me. In this case I found the hero a complete lecher. Just my .02 of course.
So in conclusion, for me it goes back to the old “”how the author handles it””. If the point is over emphasized, it’s a turn off. But I can read just about any size so long as it is not lingered over.
>>I’ve seen Kate Winslet characterized as fat.
I’ve seen that said of her, too, and I would never consider Winslet fat. I read somewhere that she is 5 foot 6 and about 120 pounds. That’s roughly a size 4-6. If society is starting to consider that overweight, I think perceptions are getting a little skewed somewhere.
I don’t know about heavy hero, but as for heavy heroine…I have a few I adore!
Firstly and probably most of all, Penelope Featherington from Julia Quinn’s Bridgerton series of novels. She’s the one I identify most with and it was wonderful seeing that she never had to change who she was and found her happy ending with the person she always loved. Even if Colin acted like a brat here and there, I still adore him too and how much he came to be totally devoted to her. (Which is later reinforced in one of the more hilarious scenes in To Sir Philip With Love).
Another is Gwedolyn from Teresa’s Medeiros The Bride and The Beast. She’s spent all her childhood into adult life being teased for being plump from the local bullies and it doesn’t help she has two beautiful sisters to be compared to. However, she’s one of the only people in her village who can read, and is a clever woman at that. I won’t give away much of the plot, but the hero in the book seems to not care about her size.
Eloisa James’ Pleasure for Pleasure features Josie Essex, who is a heavy heroine who is told early on by the hero of the book that her voluptuousness is attractive….and then borrows her dress to put on and show her how to swish her hips…
Then there’s Gabby in Enchanting Pleasures who is also on the plus size whose story was a nice read and gets her HEA with a great hero.
I think that makes the best type of ‘plus-size’ heroine romances.
JMM, I guess a plus-size romance is when the book features a heroine who either is described as plus-size or believes she is plus-size.
So, though I don’t consider a size 12 plus-size nor can I – ever – conceive of Kate Winslet as fat, if this is how a character or a size is portrayed in a book, then that’s what it ‘is’.
I have read plus-size heroine chick-lit type romances where her weight does not make for an issue at all – it’s just stated along with facts like ‘her hair is blonde’; then I’ve read romances where the heroine’s weight is an issue for her and the hero is the one to tell her ‘baby girl, you’re beautiful but you need to believe it yourself’; and yes I’ve read romances where the heroine’s weight is the entire.damn.story.
Not to get TMI on you fine folks here, but I’m a big daydreamer and my dreams usually take the form of whatever fantastic event may be happening. So, when a tennis grand slam is going on, you betcha in my dreams I am the sexiest, hottest, most intelligentest, but *nicest* player on the tour. I win all the slams, have lots of adoring fans and some player on the male tour or some random hottie from some random place (a scientist? a politician? a guy who used to go to my school? an actor? these are interchangeable) is desperately in love with me and we have our romance dramas out on the court (when we play doubles). And when I envision myself, you betcha there’s not an extraneous fat particle in sight!
I know about fantasy :P
But in my romance books, I don’t require a steady diet of physical perfection fantasy. Sometimes I like to connect with a character on physical, not just emotional grounds.
Th